Night Hypos

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    • #6136
      Peter Childs
      Participant

      I am trying to remove some rather annoying night hypos that in truth I’ve been plagued with for rather a long time. (Says he up at half three after one)

      Its made all the more complex by the fact my blood sugar always goes Up in the morning so I wake about 12mmol/l (actually slightly lower if I ever get it right) and if I test before I go to bed I also need to be on the high side to avoid one.

      I suspect they are caused by rather to much Lantis but its very difficult to get right, when I can only tell if I’m getting it wrong (when I wake up at 3am) not when I get it right (when I sleep though the night, and in all probability am still too high or too low) However if I’m far too high I will still wake up in the middle of the night. (usually after eating the wrong thing and not taking enough insulin)

    • #9624
      Dave
      Participant

      Hi Peter,

      Hope you’re OK this morning.

      For someone happy on MDI I can think of two things that ‘might’help that I know have worked for me or others.

      Firstly splitting your langue to two doses can flatten out the spikes a little. I tried this last year and it helped me before I moved to a pump.
      Secondly have you tried Levemir instead of Lantus? It’s got a different profile so may assist.

      Obviously for both of these you’ll need discussions with your DSN and I hope you have a good one.

      Fingers crossed you find a solution soon.

    • #9625
      Annette A
      Participant

      When I was on MDi I also had this problem with night hypos – my solution was to move my entire Lantus dose to the morning. (Left me with a minor dawn phenomenon due to the Lantus not being a 24 hour insulin, rather more like 22ish for me, but I dealt with that by having a dose of novorapid immediately I woke up, regardless of meals etc.
      I didnt go down the split dose route due to my digestive problems (injecting at night, however much, when I had an ‘episode’ where I stopped digesting anything was a recipe for hypos), but that would have dealt with the dawn thing, so its definitely worth talking to your DSN about trying it.

    • #9626
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi Peter, I tried the splitting of my Lantus years ago and it worked for a while. You could try changing your Lantus injecting time so that any peaks or troughs are not during the night and therefore can be adjusted for in the day by short acting insulin. Again as Dave says discuss with your DSN. Hope your not disturbed tonight lack of sleep due to hypos makes me not think clearly!

    • #9627
      Alison
      Keymaster

      @peterchilds I used to split my Lantus dose to avoid middle of the night lows. For me, it was an improvement on taking it all in one go, but the pump was a significant improvement on that.

      You could try the joys of basal testing – setting your alarm for every couple of hours during the night to see what your BGs are doing. This would give you a fuller picture of what’s happening. Or see if your clinic can lend you a CGM for a week, so you can get a proper look over several nights at whats happening while you’re asleep.

    • #9628
      Tim
      Keymaster

      I used to split my Lantus dose but it didn’t really make any significant difference, so I stopped doing it after 6 months or so.

      Your problem sounds pretty much like my old problems with Lantus and I found the best cure was a pump – which isn’t much help perhaps :-( I tried injecting Lantus earlier, later, larger doses, smaller doses but it was just too crude a mechanism for my wonky basal requirements. Said wonkiness is illustrated by my current pump basal settings:

      00.00 – 1.950u/h
      01.00 – 2.250u/h
      05.00 – 1.750u/h
      07.00 – 1.700u/h
      10.00 – 0.700u/h
      16.00 – 0.275u/h
      19.00 – 0.500u/h
      22.30 – 0.725u/h

      I need more than double the background during the night than I do during the afternoon – this was just impossible to get right with Lantus.

    • #9629
      Alison
      Keymaster

      That’s interesting @Tim – your peak is 1am, my lowest point is 2.30am. My peak is early morning, you start dropping down then. Fascinating how different basal requirements can be – especially overnight as I assume we’re both doing exactly the same thing then, sleeping.

      00.00 – 1.15u/h
      02.30 – 0.90u/h
      06.30 – 1.40u/h
      11.00 – 1.35u/h
      14.00 – 0.90u/h
      18.00 – 1.20u/h

    • #9630
      Tim
      Keymaster

      By night I’m actually an international jewel thief – so, no, I’m not sleeping. Perhaps that explains our different basal rates?

    • #9631
      Alison
      Keymaster

      Ah, I knew there must be some rational explanation, thanks for clarifying. If I ever take up international jewel theft at least I have advance warning of the impact it will have on my basal rates.

    • #9632
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      When I was attempting to wrestle Lantus into submission I tried a split (but the waking hypos returned after a few weeks) and ended up, as others have said, shifting Lantus to breakfast time. When taking it at approx 10pm the mini-peak of activity that Lantus often shows at approx 5hours post-injection was exactly times to collide with what I can now see it my need for less basal. Breakfast lantus did properly mess up readings after toast (since it was still in onset and DP was wading in) but I tried to beat that down with extra rapid and a 45 minute delay before eating breakfast.

      Infinitely tweakable basal profiles vs my ongoing struggles with Lantus were a big part of my decision to go for a pump. My morning readings have never been better since the switch.

    • #9633
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Tim & Alison,
      those basal rates are very interesting for the likes of me to see, I’m still on one 24 hr basal rate but change it depending on how sporty or not I am. Its’ still early days but don’t you find that the basal rates change depending on where the cannula is situated and/ or how active your day has been etc?

    • #9634
      Alison
      Keymaster

      I use the same basal no matter where my cannula is, I find it makes no difference to me – but I know others find they have to adjust depending on which bit of flesh they’ve stabbed.

      I use a temporary basal rate to cope with exercise, hormones, stress etc, the ones above are my standard, day to day, nothing exciting happening here rates.

    • #9635
      Annette A
      Participant

      Yes, my basals dont change with cannula site, and I change for exercise etc using temporary rates.
      My lowest basal is between 1 and 3 am, and my highest is at 7pm.
      Brings something to mind – I read (in an issue of Diatribe, that should therefore be fairly accurate, but obviously isnt) that everyone’s basal rate profile should have just one peak and one trough (similar to @Tim ), and if yours didnt, you’d got it wrong. I ignored it, because mine didnt, but there was no way I’d got it wrong (many basal tests proved that), but I did wonder if many people actually had this theoretical ideal (that the doctor said was the only correct way). I dont, @alison doesnt, @Tim does. Anyone else?

    • #9637
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @annette Nope! Much wobblier than that here. Still a bit of a work in progress, but multi-basal-test confirmed low points in the early hours and late afternoon, with a big (problematic) splurge needed ‘a bit’ before I crawl from under the duvet and a smaller boost later in the evening

    • #9640
      Tim
      Keymaster

      My basal needs were lower when I started using my back for sites – but now it’s settled down for some reason and I use the same basal rate wherever I shove a set.

    • #9642
      Peter Childs
      Participant

      So far I’ve managed to reduce my lantis down to 20 units (from 30) with no detrimental effects, (I tried 25 first) I was 7 this morning so I guess thats an improvement but I guess its going to take a few days to settle down….

    • #9643
      Tim
      Keymaster

      Let us know how it goes Peter. I always found it took about 3 days for Lantus to settle down after a change.

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